Mindfulness & Menopause Part 2

In part 2 we continue with the subject Mindfulness in the Menopause with special guest Ruth Rosselson, a mindfulness instructor.  

Not only is Ruth back, we also have an audience who experience a live 15 min meditation that Ruth has kindly put together and you too can join in!  What an incredible way to finish season 2. 

 There is also the food side, wouldn’t be menopause dinners without this.  Today my meal is Turkey burgers which are incredible and I am sure you will love them!  Full of nutrients, which are great for the menopause.  Tryptophan which is an amino acid that helps serotonin, the feel good factor in the brain.  As you will hear I don’t like Turkey so to create a meal that I enjoy, its yummy!

 It’s the last episode of season 2. Do you want a season 3?  Let us know!  What would you like to know more about, hear, maybe you would like one of our guest speakers to return for another chat.  Are you someone that has something to talk about regarding menopause?  Get in touch!

Before I go, a massive thank you to our listeners.  I really appreciate your support.  I truly hope you have enjoyed the podcasts, whether from laughter to an educational platform or just being a part of our community.   Please do reach out if you would like to give some feedback and before I go, UK ladies, something big is coming in October, stay tuned on all platforms to find out more!!  Sara x

 Email - ⁠⁠menopausedinners@gmail.com⁠⁠
 
 Website: https://www.menopausedinners.co.uk
 
 Instagram & TikTok @Menopause_dinners
 
 Facebook / You Tube - Menopause Dinners
 
 Sponsored by: Fitness Therapy 4 you: ⁠⁠https://www.fitnesstherapy4you.co.uk⁠⁠

Guest Details:

ruth_in_chorlton on threads and Instagram

Insight Timer: (free meditations)

https://insighttimer.com/ruthrosselson

Manchester Mind info:

Instagram: manchester_mind/

www.manchestermind.org

https://www.manchestermind.org/meditation-and-relaxation-resources/

https://www.manchestermind.org/our-services/wellbeing-hub/menopause/

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:15

Welcome to Manipause Dinners. My name is Sarah, and I'm your host. Not only is it me, but I have some incredible guests with me today. You can expect real stories, laughter, a few tears, and some facts to help you feel not alone in the ship's storm called the Manipaws. So sit tight and let's ride the storm together. Welcome to Manipause Dinners. So if you are new to us and you haven't joined part one, then make sure you go back and listen to it because we are talking about mindfulness in the metaphor. It's absolutely amazing. I think you're gonna love it. Um, and I'm joined uh by an amazing lady who's coming back for part two. Let's get her back in. Ruth, are you back with us? I'm back with you. She's back in the house. Ruth's in the house. Um, today in part two, it's a lot different to part one. So, part one, we talked about the reasons for meditation and why it's important for menopause, how it can help you, and also how it can help you in uh generally. But today we've got so many other things coming. So, let me go through it with you. The first thing is going to talk about the food, then we've got a quiz, and then we've got a little guided bit of a meditation thing going on with Ru. She's gonna explain that to you shortly, and then the lovely ladies we've got with us today are gonna ask Ruth some questions. Um, and if there's time, we'll ask a bit more. But uh, before we do anything, let me talk to you about the food because it wouldn't be menopause dinners without the food. And as it's our last episode of season two, I went for it. I made turkey burgers. Now I love turkey. I don't actually, I hate turkey, I don't like it at all. At Christmas, I will have salmon, I'll do anything to avoid it. It's nasty, it's dry. That's just my opinion. But I thought I'm gonna try and do something with turkey because it has so many benefits. Tryptophan, which is amino acid precursor, to help you make serotonin, supports the mood, pain regulation, appetite, and melatonin, which regulates your sleep cycle. So it's a really good food to get to grips with. So I took it upon myself to try and make something fun, which is what I did. I used uh minced turkey, and I must say, they are delicious, and I will eat loads of them. They've got sweet potato in them, and the recipe is drop in today. So when you listen to this podcast, you'll be able to check um YouTube and you can see the recipe in form. And you can try it yourself. And normally on Menopause Dinners, our guests try it. But next time we come back, if there is a season three, you'll need to let us know if you want one. I'm gonna email all our participants and see if they want to make it and then they can score. But if I was to score, I would give myself a 10. And I never give myself a 10, but they are yummy, yummy, yummy. Okay, enough of my food. So, Ruth, it's time for another quiz. Okay. All right, so this one. Where can you practice mindfulness? You can practice mindfulness. No, no, don't anywhere now. She's she's peaked too soon. Go again.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

You can practice mindfulness anywhere for me.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

There you go. You can do it while you're walking.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

You can do it while you're editing, while you're resting, while you're sitting on the sofa, while you're washing up, while you're hanging up, while washing anytime, any activity.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

Even when you're on the toilet.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Even when you're on the toilet.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

You can do mindfulness everywhere. That's the thing. Mindfulness is everywhere. Um, okay, so Ruth is gonna, for about 15 minutes, is gonna do something with you. She's gonna explain to it in a minute. So if you are listening to this, um, she'll explain to you what you need, what space you need, listen to it, pause it, go away, come back, whatever you need to do, enjoy it. We'll talk to, we'll talk after, and we'll get some feedback from our other ladies. Over to you, Ruth.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Okay. So we've kind of used the word mindfulness a lot. Uh, so I just want to firstly define it. Um, mindfulness means paying attention on purpose. So paying attention to what's happening inside of us and outside of us. So noticing what we can see, hear, smell, taste, that's part of mindfulness. Noticing how we feel in our bodies, pain, aches, tension, tightness, joy, wonder, we can notice all of those when we're being mindful. Mindful meditation is a kind of formal practice of paying attention. So we decide to pay attention. The trouble is, and especially now in today's society, it's really hard to pay attention. Our minds are very, very good at getting distracted. We might be distracted by sounds, we might be distracted by what's going on in our body. Oh, I feel pain, I'm itchy, what's going on? Or most usually we will be distracted with a whole host of thoughts. It's really important to know that mindfulness does not stop us from thinking. If you have a completely empty mind, then the chances are two things that are happening, one of them good, one's not so much. So if your mind is completely clear, completely empty, you're either dead, in which case, commiserations, or you're enlightened, in which case, congratulations. But for most of us, we're not going to be in that enlightened state. So really important to be kind to ourselves. So when we're mindful, when we're paying attention in a mindful way, we're paying attention without judgment. So it's not about clearing the mind. I still hear teachers say, clear your mind. That's like saying, don't think of the pink elephant. What are you thinking of? The pink elephant. So when we are mindfully meditating, we're trying to give our mind something to pay attention to. So we call that an anchor. The anchor is the thing that we pay attention to, but it's also the thing that we can bring our attention back to when the mind wanders, which it will probably many times. So mind wandering isn't a failure. People think I can't meditate because I think too much. We'll think a lot. So the the uh practice is about noticing when we've got lost in thought. Oh, I'm thinking about my dinner, or those turkey burgers, or what I'm gonna eat tomorrow. We notice those thoughts and we come back to whatever anchor we're we've just decided on. So I also like to think of those thoughts uh like weights at the gym. So we all know we're kind of perimenopause, we're menopause or women, we should be lifting weights, but we don't go to the gym and lift an empty weight and expect to build muscle. And thoughts are the weights that we that we play with. So uh really letting go of expectations of clear and empty minds and feelings of zen, we might feel relaxed and it's nice when we do, but that's not the point. The point is simply training ourselves to pay attention, to notice when our minds wandered, to bring our minds back and to be kind and patient. So when we bring our minds back patiently, we're building new networks in our brain. When we bring ourselves back kindly, we're building new networks in our brain that teach us to be kind to ourselves instead of impatient and frustrated. And it's hard, and that's why it takes practice, and that's why we call it a practice, meditation practice. So I'm going to lead you in a very introductory meditation where you can try out different anchors. So you can try focusing on uh the different options I'm gonna give you, and then in the last part of the meditation, choose the one that's easiest for you. So what you need when you meditate is to be comfortable. Ideally, you want to be in a kind of alert posture because we're we're not we're not sending ourselves to sleep here. Um so if you can, wherever you are, sit up with a nice straight-ish spine, but you can absolutely do this lying down if you prefer. You can absolutely do this in your sofa or your armchair or really wherever you are. You don't have to have your eyes closed. So some people love to meditate with their eyes closed. That feels calming, that feels peaceful, that feels lovely, and other people prefer to meditate with their eyes open. So if your eyes are open, you might have an unfocused gaze. So not looking at anything particular, uh sort of unfocused, maybe a few feet ahead of you on the floor if you sat down, or if you've got a window, you can look to the horizon. Again, not looking at anything in particular. So settling in. And I'll lead this practice for around 10 minutes. So we've had our introduction, and just allow yourself to settle in and allow the body to be supported by whatever's beneath and behind you. So we're often holding on in the shoulders, in the jaw, in the hips. So see if you can let the body settle and soften. Maybe softening out the jaw, the shoulders, giving the body up to gravity. And inviting you to see if you can pay attention to the feet and wherever the feet are resting. So there should be some contact maybe between the feet and the floor, or the feet and the bed or the sofa. Can you notice those experiences, those sensations in the feet? You might be aware of the temperature of the feet, or the feel of socks, or shoes, or slippers around the tops or sides of the feet. So there should be obvious sensations to pay attention to. And then shifting your focus. So paying attention now to wherever the body meets what you're resting on. So maybe there are sensations underneath your thighs and your bum, maybe the back of the body as well. So you might notice how hard or soft the surface is that the body's resting on. And then noticing the hands, so maybe they're resting on the lap or the belly. Noticing temperature, touch, and pressure in the hands. And actually these tangible and obvious sensations of the feet, the seat, and the hands can be really useful anchor points for us as we go through our day. So when we find ourselves spinning out, thinking, overthinking and worrying, we can come back to the experience of the feet, the seat and the hands. The different sensations and experiences there in the body. So that's our first anchor feet, seat and hands. Paying attention to whatever's happening, whatever you notice is fine. And maybe the mind has wandered off into the future or what's happened in your day so far, and know that that is normal and natural. See if you can be kind and reorientate. So redirect the attention back to the body when you notice it's got lost in thought. And we'll shift focus into the second anchor option now. So we often use the breath as an anchor. So we might notice where moves as you breathe. So maybe noticing a rise and fall in the chest or an expansion in the belly, or where the air becomes the breath at the tip of the nose can be quite nice for some people. We don't need to change the breath, we're not deepening the breath, we're not doing breath work here. We're allowing the body to breathe itself, but we're noticing. And the good thing about the breath as an anchor is it's always here, it's always with us. So see if you can tune in and notice the different sensations and movements as the body naturally breathes. And this is the anchor to bring the attention back to when you notice the mind is lost in thought.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

Breathing in and knowing that you're breathing in. Breathing out and knowing that you're breathing out.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

So an anchor can be something we're experiencing inside of the body, such as the body on support or the breath, but an anchor can also be something outside of the body. So our third choice of anchor is gonna be sounds and what you can hear. So spending a few moments orientating yourself to the sounds, maybe in the room that you're in, maybe further afield as well. And it would be lovely if we had peace and quiet every time we wanted to meditate, but real life isn't like that. So it can be really useful to bring sounds into our meditation. See if it's possible not to get caught up in those conversations, if there are words around you or into reactions against the sounds that you like or dislike, and just let them come into awareness, a soundscape around you. Noticing if you're starting to analyze or think about the sounds. That's normal as well. So what I'm gonna invite you to do is be curious and choose. So choose one of those anchors for the next few minutes. So either the feet, the seat, and the hands, the tangible sensations of the body seated or lying where you're in contacts with support, or the breath as it moves through the body, maybe one point of the breath, maybe more, or the sounds. So choosing one of those anchors and sticking to that for the next couple of minutes and see if you can bring a dose of curiosity to the experience. Whatever anchor you've chosen. And maybe there's some focus and attention on the anchor and spaces between the thoughts. Or maybe the mind is still very busy and know that that is fine. Short practice, it doesn't always give a lot of time for the mind to settle. So if you've noticed that the mind wanders, you've noticed that's mindfulness. You can congratulate yourself for noticing. Coming back to the anchor point again and again. So everybody just noticing the surface that the body's resting on the touch and the pressure coolness or warmth. And then just paying attention just to the feet. Maybe they're fully in contact with the floor if you're sat down, or maybe just partially. So a sense of connection between the feet and wherever the feet are resting. Sense of being grounded and connected. And as I draw the practice to a close, maybe just saying thank you to yourself for taking some time out to pay attention, to meditate, and know that you can always come back to these anchor points at any point during your day. If you find yourself getting agitated, frustrated, lost in thought, worry, anxiety. Find your anchor and notice it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 20:28

Thank you very much, Ruth, for doing that. I'll let the uh the ladies come to a bit. One of them might be a while.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Yeah. So you might need to have a little bit of a stretch and a move. I always like to have a bit of a full bodily stretch and a bit of a shake when I've done a bit of a practice. I like shaking and dancing and moving around. We did some drum and bass in my uh one of my sessions yesterday, put some music on, got everyone to have a shake. Uh so that can be really good. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

Um yeah, yeah. I really like that. Um, we'll give them a couple of minutes and then uh we can reflect on it. So the anchor, um that's really interesting. So just give me a bit of uh insight to that.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

So it's hard to kind of focus on everything. The mind is already easily distracted. So if if we're paying attention to the whole body, there's a lot to notice there. And then it's easy for our minds to get pulled, you know, we're very good time travelers thinking about what's what's not happened yet or what's already happened. Whereas when we can focus on something that's real, we come back to now, we come back to the present moment. So the anchor points, they're all real, they're all here, they're all here in the present. So some people like a candle, some people might look at a candle flame, and that will be their meditation. Um, but the the three that I used are very tangible, they're very obvious. So if the body sat down, we can notice where it sat down. If the body's always breathing and we like That we can notice where moves, and that's quite good because it's changing all the time. So an anchor that changes is may also hold the attention a little bit more. Um, and then sounds because sounds are always there and they're always changing, and we can't control them. So that's also a useful anchor because it helps us to pay attention um and and not have to control that experience. So there's a lot of learning, whichever anchor we choose.

SPEAKER_05 22:30

Yeah, it's really interesting. No, I like that concept because it's it's something like you said, they can people can go back to throughout the day. It's very, very quick to remember. Yeah, you haven't got to worry about it. You can just think, oh yes, my hands or the breath.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yep, my hands or the breath, or yeah, and it and as I say, it brings us into now because uh the anxieties, the worries, they haven't happened yet. Or even the worries about behind, we can't change what's happened. So those things are not real. What is real is I'm sat down on my chair, I'm breathing, I'm reasonably okay. Those things are real, and so though those anchors are are really useful. And the um the the thing that I've kind of heard through kind of different podcasts I've listened to is the the kind of idea of being curious about the anchor. So not just about noticing, it's like, oh, what does that feel like? Oh, what's that like? And curiosity is a really good antidote to anxiety. We can't really be anxious if we're curious, but so we we can even be curious about our anxiety, like, oh, what does that feel like? What's going on in my body? Yeah, okay, I'm still sat down, I can notice those things, that's all right.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

It's very um easy to dismiss, isn't it? And kind of like not pay attention to it, run away from it. Um but it's actually better to to think about it and sit with it.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Sit with it rather than think about it, because when we think about it, we kind of get into that feedback loop. So when we can notice the body, if it's okay to do so, and it's not always okay to do so, sometimes it it's too painful to notice the body uh or to be with our anxiety or to sit with it. It can take time to get to that point. Um, and again, we can focus on something else. If focusing, if sitting with the anxiety is too much, then sometimes those sounds can be a good anchor instead because it's outside of the body, and by focusing on something else as a distraction that can calm down what's going on inside of us.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

My um husband always says that our dog and dogs in general are a great example of mindfulness. Oh, yes, yeah, because they live in the moment, they don't care about two minutes ago, they care about now. So if they ate two minutes ago, they don't care. They they want food now, they want it now, they forget very quickly. And you know, I see that all the time with my dog, and I'm like, oh my goodness, if only humans were like that, it would be just so much easier.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:10

Um, okay, so Nikki, would you like to unmute yourself? There we go. Hello, Nikki.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Hi Nikki.

SPEAKER_05 25:17

Hi. So we've got Julia as well. I think Julie's just disappeared, but we'll um when she comes back. So Nikki, how did um how did you find that?

SPEAKER_06 25:26

Um I actually found it really nice because I think my problem, like I've done meditation for about a year now, and while I was doing it, I was gathering me thought why I do it and I couldn't think. And it's because I don't keep still. Even when I'm chilling, I'd be like, oh, next minute, I go into the kitchen and then I'm cleaning the cupboard. And I don't keep still whether I'm fiddling with my hair, whether I'm just twiddling. So then what I realized was I was still and not important. And then I focused on the breathing just before you said it, and that's what you're stuck with, or stuck with the breathing. Yeah, yeah, great. Um, it's trying to bring your brain back from traveling to another thought.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, those thoughts they're really they're really persistent, so you know, kind of well done for that. And it's first really interesting that kind of you're not generally still in your daily life, but when you come to meditation, something something happens, something changes. You allow yourself to be still, but it doesn't cause you agitation to be still. It's not yeah, no. So then yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:03

Because I do not keep still like I find when people are talking, I drift off into my own little world. But I actually that worked for me. I drifted off probably once. Well, maybe then yeah, yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Really, really well done for that. Yeah. So over time you're training yourself to pay attention and to bring yourself back. So over time, in situations where you find yourself drifting off, you you get the skills to bring yourself back. I don't think we ever stop drifting off. Uh you know, and for those of us that are very fidgety, which you know is a lot of people, that's okay. That's okay. But we're able to maybe make more choices about whether we want to be or not want to be, and whether we can kind of focus on something else. So well done for that, Nikki. And it's interesting, you you kind of use the breath that was kind of very accessible for you, and that gave you something you know obvious to to notice and focus on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well done. Yeah. You're welcome. Hi. Hi Julia. Good back questions. Did I send you to sleep, Julia?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Uh I I was close to the edge before we even started it. So I I was when you said, and we're just gonna go into practice, I was like, fantastic. Um that really worked for me. Um I've done meditation in the past, um, and I always really enjoy it, and it's one of those things I always forget that I enjoy. So um to do that just then was just fab. Absolutely. I needed that little boost, you know, and I felt that's what it gave me. Right. Um I'm I'm actually cute, if I can ask you, um, from a pain point of view and a personal pain point of view for you, is it do you find you manage your pain better, uh Ruth, with this?

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yeah. So probably I would say there's three things that um meditation has helped me when it comes to pain. The first thing is I don't think I have as much pain now as I did. When I have a flare, I would say it never gets to the point where I want to cut my arm off because it hurts so much.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

I don't know if that is just coincidence, um, but there is some research that shows that regular meditation does affect that kind of pain sensitivity that many of us with chronic pain experience. So it kind of needs to be kind of consistent practice. Um, but I I do fully believe that that has I I as I say, you know, it it there's lots of things that it could be down to. I don't flare as much, but when I do flare, it never seems to be as painful as it used to be. So that's one. The other is um I as I I mentioned on the first podcast, I don't stress about it in the same way that I used to. So meditation helps me not stress. So when we in in meditation we call it, you know, the unwanted. When you're having what you don't want, it's natural and normal not to want it. Um who wants pain? Nobody wants pain, nobody wants fatigue, nobody wants some of these menopause symptoms. Who's asking for that? Yeah, I want that. Nobody. Um it's natural to react against the unwanted and not want it. But in the not wanting, we make it worse. It gets bigger, it grows. So um in in a lot of my sessions, there was that if you kind of like if you kind of clench a fist and try and force your fist open, what you're gonna notice, well, maybe you've stopped breathing, you're holding your breath for a start, which doesn't help. But you might also notice that that clenched fist starts to hurt more. And I notice that there's also pain in my shoulder as I'm trying to react against this. So we've got a phrase in meditation which is what resists persists. So the more we don't want the thing that we're having, the worse it feels. So mindfulness, what that helps for me, the meditation helps me be with the thing as it is, which isn't very nice. Oh, that's not nice, that's hard. But we don't, I don't make it worse. So that's the second thing it's helped with. And the third thing it's helped with, as I've I've already mentioned, so importantly, really kind, being kinder to myself when I'm in pain. So it's so easy to be sort of beat ourselves up. I've done something to deserve this, what have I done? It's not fair, uh, I should be coping with this better. All of those thoughts, they're just thoughts. They're not helpful, and they just make us feel worse. So, yeah, I might still have those thoughts. I don't have to pay attention to them. And I can just kind of be kind to myself and go, you know, pain's quite hard. What's kind to myself? What's gonna help right now? Um, so it's it's kind of on on a lot of different levels the the meditation helps me. The sad thing is you can't top up and then expect it to work for the next six months and not practice. It's something that I've learned I have to practice regularly. And I will skip days, I will be honest. I'm not, you know, I don't meditate every single day for the same length of time. Some days it's five minutes, some days it's 25 minutes. Um but it's regular. I don't go weeks without it. It's keeping it up because it's so easy to go on those trains. So we get on the tra we're on the platform, the train comes of self-pity, of why me, why is this happening? It's not fair, I don't want this, it's not fair that I've got this, no one else has got this. I mean, I got my rheumatoid arthritis when I was 34. I was quite young. Um, so it's so easy to get on the self-pity train. But when we practice regularly, we can get on the train and then we can get off at the next station and go, actually, I don't have to, I don't have to follow this through. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. And and I think with with fatigue as well, which comes along with pain, comes along with fibromyalgia, comes along with menopause. The more we fight it, the more tired we get. So um we can give ourselves a bit of a break by not fighting it, and that gives us some energy back.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

I think, yeah, you sorry, I didn't I didn't answer you earlier. My dog is just going crazy in my kitchen. She's fed. She's okay, everyone. It's just that she's having a moment. Um yeah, it's it's it's m it's crazy, isn't it? The whole thought process that is linked to pain and uh chronic fatigue, and but I think it's that internal sort of battle of what can I do today, what I need to do today, you know, and it's just that tick tick tick of of the clock, and I sometimes I get quite um upset because it's like you know, it's a sunny day or something, and I want you know, there's uh like a thousand or one jobs perhaps around the house I want to do, and I end up doing what I consider to be very little, and then I'm I'm I'm berating myself when in actual fact I should be sort of saying to myself, Well, great, at least you did that.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah, absolutely. And I bet Julia, if Sarah or Nikki told you, Oh, I was having a really fatigued day and I was in a lot of pain, I had a lot of jobs to do, I only did one of them. You wouldn't say to them, What's wrong with you? Why didn't you do all the jobs? You go, God, that sounds really hard, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_05 35:04

You don't know Julia well enough, she might say that. Might you, Julia?

SPEAKER_03 35:09

But I we're so much kinder to other people. And I think it's yeah, really, really, really important to learn to be kind to ourselves. It's not letting ourselves off, yeah. It's just being it's just being kind.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah, and just being gentler, isn't it? Um but uh that's I think that's what I struggle with as well. And I think I went through a phase of being more gentle with myself, and I think it's one of those things is when once everything is ramped up, like you say, once you get once the fatigue is getting worse, once the pain is getting worse, and all these other things, it's really hard then to keep your mood level and your perspective level and you know your rational mind level. So everything just seems to sort of escalate and snowball.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Absolutely, yeah. And that's normal. That's normal because those experiences cause us stress. Yeah. So pain causes us stress, sleeplessness, tiredness, yeah, it's our bodies in stress. So when we are stressed, our minds are more negative, that's natural. Um, and again, when we can see that's happening, we can let ourselves off for those negative thoughts. I'm not broken, I'm not wrong. That's natural that my mind's negative, but we can also learn not to be so invested in those thoughts. So if I have a day where I'm very stressed or I've slept really badly and I have a bunch of negative thoughts and I'm not thinking very nice things about myself, I remind myself, you're bound to be more negative today, you've not slept. Yeah, you don't have to believe them.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

But also trying to stop, isn't it? Stop that thought before it just snowballs or something.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah. I think it's hard to to stop the thoughts coming. It's it's the snowballing, as you've put it, that we're trying to get a better handle on. So when we can just direct our thoughts away, direct our attention away from the thinking into the experience of the body. So it might not feel very nice to notice that, but can we be curious about it and you know find something that is nice? So um, full disclosure, I have my emotional support beetle that sits on my lap here, and I'm stroking that. That feels really nice. So even though there might be pain in my back today and pain in my shoulder, I've got something that I can focus on excellent.

SPEAKER_05 37:33

I knew you were gonna look for something, Julia. Yeah, yeah. I knew it.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Um so so we can't be snowballing if we're paying full attention to something else that's concrete.

SPEAKER_05 37:45

Yeah, no, it's it's very good. I mean, I I remember years ago someone telling me about teddies, and they said to me, you know, get yourself a teddy. And I thought, I've got my teddies, I've still got them. I could there's some that I keep. In fact, I've loaned one out at the moment to a very special young lady who needs it and he's on an adventure, he's going to hospital and everything at the moment, he's having a well of a time, but I you know, I think it's okay to be like that inner child and just really and do and do whatever you need to do to soothe yourself, uh, which is more healthier for you.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

And sometimes, you know, if you're sad because it's a nice day and you can't go out and enjoy the nice day, let yourself be sad. It is sad, it is hard sometimes. So trying to force ourselves into this kind of positive mental attitude all the time, it's not healthy and it's not realistic. It's fine to be sad as long as it doesn't kind of overtake, as long as we don't drown in it. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 38:47

Um so I've got a question on that because with menopause, especially when you get to post, yeah, your sadness is actually more frequent than before. So in peri, it's kind of like very much up and down, like a little bit of a yo-yo, and then it flattens. And this is something that I've definitely struggled with with my mood. Um, yeah, the sadness is being quite consistent now and again, and it stays longer. So, how do we how are we mindful with that? Because there's only so many times you can say to yourself, I'm feeling sad, which is what I do. I'm feeling sad, I you know, not in the voice I'm saying, and I'm rushing, but yeah, you know, I I hear myself, I say, Sarah, it's okay, you know, it's alright, but it's it's quite a lot of times to say to myself.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

It's like Well, I think you know, there is a lot of sadness. It's it's life. Yeah. You know, I I was talking to my dad, my dad's 91, he's got a lot of sadness. You know, he's lost his best friend. My dad lost his friend of 80 years, they were friends since they were 11. Um, so you know, we were kind of talking about life, and we were saying, yeah, there's a lot of sadness in life, yeah, but there's a lot of joy as well. So I think I think for me, and I can over you know, and everybody's experience is different, every everyone's got different lives, different challenges, different things going on. Um, sometimes I sit and I sit with the experience of sadness. So it, you know, just let myself feel it. For me, there's a heaviness in my chest, there's a heaviness in my belly. I can sit with it, it's manageable, it's not overwhelming. That sadness is there, there's some grief around, that's okay. But it's not the same as depression because you know, I'll go out and I'll go and see the blossom or hear a bird song, and that brings me joy. So I think this the sadness periods, if they're not always there, then it's still a wave. Then there's you know, finding the joy and finding the positives um are important, but allowing ourselves to feel that sadness and accept that it's part of life.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Um there, you know, we've got there is so much to be sad about, and there is so much to be joyful about as well. And I think that the other thing, Sarah, is we can have both.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

And I think before I practiced mindfulness, I didn't understand that.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

I didn't understand that I can be sad and joyful and actually have them both together. Not trying to get rid of the sadness, but actually be joyful about something and sad and have both at the same time. Both and, and that's a that's a skill, and that takes time. So a real life example of that is I was with in the kitchen with my mum who has Alzheimer's. She's in a nursing home now, but she was at home at the time, and she's non-verbal, and there was there was a lot of grief in just in me sitting with her in the kitchen, and at the same time, there were some birds on my parents' bird feeder. So I was able to hold the sadness and grief of being there with my mum, and hold the joy and the wonder of these birds, and they both existed together in my experience at the same time. The grief didn't push out the joy, the joy wasn't kind of saying, Don't don't be sad because look at the wonder, but they both were able to be held together, and um, you know, that does take a lot of practice to be honest. Um, but that's how I approach life because you know, at our age there is going to be grief, there is going to be challenges, there are things to be sad about. We can't get rid of them.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

So, from menopause point of view, when are we I suppose really what we're trying to say is that it's a obviously we're changing our life, our life is changing, the course of our life is changing, everything that we knew is different, so we have to find the good and sit with the sit with the not so good.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

I mean, our bodies are changing, you know. We look in the mirror and it doesn't reflect who we feel we are inside. Um that's really hard. That is really hard, and sometimes it can be as simple as of course I'm sad today. I think I'm having some hormonal shifts and changes, and uh, I don't have to put too much too much stock into that sadness. I can still I can still do other things today. Um especially in that peri part when you're up and down and up and down, it's it's trying to kind of find some kind of stability underneath all of that. Um I think that that can be quite challenging.

SPEAKER_06 43:36

Oh, that's it. I think it's also about listening to your body and knowing that it's okay to slow down.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:46

Because you're getting older and you're not the same person as you were ten years ago. And that's a lot of the problem, is you're used to being on the go all the time and you need to. slow down something more into with your body.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

I think that's where living with a chronic illness has kind of helped because I had to I had to start doing that very early in my 30s. I I couldn't keep going as I had done in my twenties because I was ill. I you know I couldn't work the full hours, I couldn't work full time, I had to you know turn down invitations to things and you know some things I couldn't do. So I've I think I feel in some ways it feels weird to say that but um feel lucky that I've been prepared to slow down by having having been forced into slowing down when I was younger.

SPEAKER_05 44:37

But you're so right Nikki I mean so many women we've got caring responsibilities we've got jobs we've got high expectations it's push push push uh and then our bodies go uh uh you're not doing that anymore yeah okay Nikki th uh Nikki and Julia thank you very much uh for jumping in there um roof let's just talk about your your course uh before we wrap up so yeah yeah if um anyone is interested in doing uh this mindfulness course with you can you tell them how to how they can reach you yeah so there's at the moment I don't have dates for my next course um uh some courses I run in person so you'd have to be in Manchester to attend and some I run online where you you should be in Manchester but we do take occasional people from outside of Manchester.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

So to kind of find out course dates you can go to Manchestermind's website manchestermind.org um we have uh the the mindfulness for menopause and mindfulness for stress courses are on there uh you can find Manchester Mind on social media as well uh Instagram and you can also find myself I'm Ruth in Chalton on Instagram and threads but if you can't come on a course we've got resources that are free. Obviously it's great if you can donate to Manchester Mind but you don't have to to access those resources. So if you go to the Manchester Mind website and you go to to um um the I think it's the mindfulness page has a has access to our meditation and relaxation resources. So we've got pre-recorded uh breathing we've got a lovely relaxation we've got a middle of the night remedy rescue remedy if you wake up in the night so we've got short practices and longer practices on the website there. So you can listen to those uh anywhere and um I myself also have some of those practices on uh an app called Insight Timer so that's free to download all of my uh all of my practices on there recorded practices are also free to access so uh that that also includes my middle of the night rescue remedy which is my high highest rated um meditation on that Insight Timer app and more frequently the feedback is I fell asleep before the end which is the highest praise you want from from a sleep meditation. So you can kind of find us in all sorts of different ways um and you can contact me through Manchester Mind. So kind of go to our contact page on the website go to the meditation it's got my email address on there so if you're interested you can sign up for course for the waiting list and then find out ahead of time when when courses are running.

SPEAKER_05 47:19

Thank you very much Ruth and I just want to say um a massive massive thank you for coming on today um it's been a real treat and I've loved it it's great and it's lovely to have you know sort of a a nice group of us together to kind of chat and share it's uh it's really nice thanks for inviting me oh it's been great thank you for thank you for being support and coming on and I just want to remind everyone that uh we will post all of uh Ruth's information wherever you're listening to so whether it's on the Buzzsprout or YouTube or on our Insta Ruth's details will be on there too so you can connect through that way with her as well but what a way to finish I mean you've got to go out with a bang but we've gone out with the chill so um I am going to wrap up and I'm actually just got to tell you something very exciting before before I say goodbye for season two I just want to tell you that something is coming with Menopause Dinners on October the 18th information will be shared with you within the next few weeks we are going live we are going to be somewhere on October the 18th please please please stay in touch on all of our socials all will be revealed it's gonna be incredible so I'm very much excited about that so please if you're in the UK keep in touch and if you're not in the UK we might even be able to live stream it so just still just keep keep in touch with everything but listen for season two it wouldn't be right if I didn't say a big thank you to all of the people that have been on so far. So we've had Pete we've had Caroline we've had Carol we've had Kirsty we've had Maria Paula Imogene Julian Nikki Amanda and of course the lovely Ruth we've had audiences that where we've been at Redbridge who we want again say thank you to Redbridge for hosting us when we go there and obviously I've got to say massive thank you to all of you at home I really really appreciate you coming back and listening to the podcast and I really value um value you coming back to us it's it's just really really nice to see that you're enjoying it. Don't forget you can get in touch with us you can you know um there's a voice note now you can send us you can send us a text it'd be really good to get some feedback because do you want a season three do you want us to come back because if you do you've got to let us know um I think you want us back and what do you want are there subjects that you want to hear are you someone that um specialises in something I would like to be in season three I have actually got people contacting me already for this um and please bear with me because I am going to have a little bit of a break from podcasting for a few months before we do attempt a season three so if you have got in touch I will come back to you but um oh wow we're we're there now so let's just let's just wrap this let's wrap this sucker up okay so please don't forget to like rate subscribe share with your friends tell them what we're doing because we are non-profit okay so yes we do it for fun and we do it to help you but we want to spread the word so please help us out there's also a monetisation button now so you can donate anything helps just to keep us going so before you go I just want to say first of all thank you to Nikki and Julia for popping along tonight as well I didn't say that. Thank you ladies thank you um Meni Paul sucks but oh my god I've had so many friends so many friends this season and season one and with them it sucked a whole lot less so I will see you next time on Meni Paul's Dinners you take care Menipo's Dinners is sponsored by Fitness Therapy for you any supplementation or medication we've discussed is from our own experience if you do have a medical condition please seek professional advice before trying anything that's been mentioned today